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  • Stefan Stefanović

    Not mutually exclusive options.

    If you create cooperative economic sector, in competition with
    capitalist economic sector (capitalists love competition, right?), there
    will be no reason to choose the above options.

    This cooperative sector can be subsidized just like the government
    has been subsidizing capitalist economic sector, for years and still is
    doing so (best well known example is the bailout of the capitalist
    bankers who do not like government taxes or interference except when
    they need help).

    All working people will be engaged in production as cooperative
    members (not adversarial employees/employers) and the cooperatives will
    cooperate in order to protect/value people above profits or jobs. With
    the smart and feasible application of today’s technologies workers will
    create wealth, relative abundance of necessities of life and create
    leisure for all. The direct violence between groups will be greatly
    reduced because we are removing significant structural violence
    (specifically exploitation of workers, which is organization that
    defines the capitalist economic production) by establishing cooperative
    economic sector.

    Instead of thinking about creating undemocratic hierarchical
    workplaces that work for and are controlled by shareholders (and
    directors shareholders choose), think about creating democratic
    cooperative workplaces that include all relevant stakeholders (member
    workers, costumers, suppliers, local community) in the process of
    arriving at decisions that are good for all stakeholders.

    …I went a little overboard with this comment. Hope that you do not mind. 🙂

    • Demon

      “All working people will be engaged in production as cooperative
      members (not adversarial employees/employers) and the cooperatives will
      cooperate in order to protect/value people above profits or jobs.”

      You think much to highly of most people.

      • evilsandmich

        For those that don’t meet the standard, it’s off to the camp with them!

    • totenglocke

      It must be interesting, living a life completely detached from reality.

      • Stefan Stefanović

        > It must be interesting, living a life completely detached from reality.
        I would assume that you do not imply that I live my life detached from reality. But in case you do think that I do, here is my response. 🙂

        I am relay irrelevant in this discussion. What is important is constantly and pragmatically looking for empirical evidence that our beliefs are false.

        I always seek to find empirical evidence and examples from the world around me which demonstrate that my own beliefs about the world are false, this is the only way I know that can help me improve my understanding. Of course some beliefs should have more priority for empirical examination than others.

        Just do not mix and confuse the reality with our dominant culture. What is accepted in mass media, shaping our culture, is not always reflective of the reality.

    • Dip Shitterson

      Refugees will also be competing with citizens for jobs. Minimum wage jobs will also be removed due to being replaced by machines.

  • bill johnson

    They also want money for doing nothing and for invaders to live here for nothing.

  • David Sage

    I’d rather say they have a problem with basic self awareness. In their head it’s all compartmentalised. Even though they love to complain about systemic issues they just don’t have their own world view in system but rather as a collection of individually good-sounding ideas. I’m sure if you forced them to actually review their own ideology they’d eventually see the contradiction. The problem is nobody within their own movement makes them do that and thanks to the heavy tribalism of contemporary politics they won’t listen to reason from the enemy.

  • rdococ

    Don’t blame the immigrants because the capitalists are taking advantage of them.

    • Aidan T. Tierian

      Don’t blame them when they kill 20-year old white girls in Iowa?

  • Bix Nood

    then they fuck

  • Nicholas Blackman

    *woman with bernie 2016 shirt* “omg raise wages open the border”
    “with out borders there is no united states”
    “what are you some kind of trump supporter”
    “trump supporter?” *reveals to be bernie sanders*

  • Oudeicrat Annachrista
  • raising the minimum wage and opening borders are completely compatible goals, and the folks fighting for them should work together. a good cartoon

    • Anthony Walsh

      Do you know what supply and demand is? How that relates to prices/wages? As you add more workers without creating jobs, wages go down and prices go up.

      • um, do – do you know what the minimum wage is? it’s not actually determined by employer demand.

        • Anthony Walsh

          Min wage goes too high they just start hiring illegals who will work for lower than min wage. It has already happened many times over. Unions and min wage hikes encourage automations and hiring illegals.

          • no human is illegal

          • Anthony Walsh

            But some humans enter countries without going through the proper procedure, then work jobs for cash, don’t pay income tax, which not only reduces the number of jobs for citizens but lowers the price of labor. Simple supply and demand. Then people complain labor is too cheap and to increase minimum wage which makes employers hire more illegal entrants of just automate the jobs away.

          • none of this is solved by restricting immigration or by lowering the minimum wage or by doing both, of course. and it’s got nothing to do with folks entering without “proper procedure” – employers will always, always exploit their workers whenever they can. the true solution is to remove the dependency between employment and survival: implementing universal basic income, free food and housing, healthcare, and similar initiatives.

    • Stiffy Weiner

      Yes, but capitalists don’t tive a shit about immigrants unless they can exploit them

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