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  • Stefan Stefanović

    Not mutually exclusive options.

    If you create cooperative economic sector, in competition with
    capitalist economic sector (capitalists love competition, right?), there
    will be no reason to choose the above options.

    This cooperative sector can be subsidized just like the government
    has been subsidizing capitalist economic sector, for years and still is
    doing so (best well known example is the bailout of the capitalist
    bankers who do not like government taxes or interference except when
    they need help).

    All working people will be engaged in production as cooperative
    members (not adversarial employees/employers) and the cooperatives will
    cooperate in order to protect/value people above profits or jobs. With
    the smart and feasible application of today’s technologies workers will
    create wealth, relative abundance of necessities of life and create
    leisure for all. The direct violence between groups will be greatly
    reduced because we are removing significant structural violence
    (specifically exploitation of workers, which is organization that
    defines the capitalist economic production) by establishing cooperative
    economic sector.

    Instead of thinking about creating undemocratic hierarchical
    workplaces that work for and are controlled by shareholders (and
    directors shareholders choose), think about creating democratic
    cooperative workplaces that include all relevant stakeholders (member
    workers, costumers, suppliers, local community) in the process of
    arriving at decisions that are good for all stakeholders.

    …I went a little overboard with this comment. Hope that you do not mind. 🙂

    • Demon

      “All working people will be engaged in production as cooperative
      members (not adversarial employees/employers) and the cooperatives will
      cooperate in order to protect/value people above profits or jobs.”

      You think much to highly of most people.

      • evilsandmich

        For those that don’t meet the standard, it’s off to the camp with them!

    • totenglocke

      It must be interesting, living a life completely detached from reality.

      • Stefan Stefanović

        > It must be interesting, living a life completely detached from reality.
        I would assume that you do not imply that I live my life detached from reality. But in case you do think that I do, here is my response. 🙂

        I am relay irrelevant in this discussion. What is important is constantly and pragmatically looking for empirical evidence that our beliefs are false.

        I always seek to find empirical evidence and examples from the world around me which demonstrate that my own beliefs about the world are false, this is the only way I know that can help me improve my understanding. Of course some beliefs should have more priority for empirical examination than others.

        Just do not mix and confuse the reality with our dominant culture. What is accepted in mass media, shaping our culture, is not always reflective of the reality.

    • Dip Shitterson

      Refugees will also be competing with citizens for jobs. Minimum wage jobs will also be removed due to being replaced by machines.

    • Blarg Blarg

      Immigration is invasion.

      It is soooo much more than mere money.

      The loss of high-trust culture from the mexican immivaders is country ending.

      Proximity + Diversity = War.

      • Tristan Wintle

        Repeating talking points doesn’t make them true.

        • Denying the points doesn’t make them lies, either.

          Especially when they are observably true.

  • bill johnson

    They also want money for doing nothing and for invaders to live here for nothing.

  • David Sage

    I’d rather say they have a problem with basic self awareness. In their head it’s all compartmentalised. Even though they love to complain about systemic issues they just don’t have their own world view in system but rather as a collection of individually good-sounding ideas. I’m sure if you forced them to actually review their own ideology they’d eventually see the contradiction. The problem is nobody within their own movement makes them do that and thanks to the heavy tribalism of contemporary politics they won’t listen to reason from the enemy.

  • rdococ

    Don’t blame the immigrants because the capitalists are taking advantage of them.

    • Aidan T. Tierian

      Don’t blame them when they kill 20-year old white girls in Iowa?

      • Blarg Blarg

        Leftists must truly not care about people. They only holler about it when one of their protected class gets criticized.

    • Blarg Blarg

      The destruction of western culture is more than enough reason to blame the immivaders. Just because neo-con (((capitalists))) want it as much as your leaders want the immivaders votes to stay in power doesn’t excuse either side.

      Diversity + Proximity = War.

    • Anon

      They could choose not to enter illegally. And but don’t blame the criminals for committing a crime, they’re just victims who kidnap children to enter the border and commit identity theft.

  • Bix Nood

    then they fuck

  • Nicholas Blackman

    *woman with bernie 2016 shirt* “omg raise wages open the border”
    “with out borders there is no united states”
    “what are you some kind of trump supporter”
    “trump supporter?” *reveals to be bernie sanders*

  • Oudeicrat Annachrista
  • raising the minimum wage and opening borders are completely compatible goals, and the folks fighting for them should work together. a good cartoon

    • Anthony Walsh

      Do you know what supply and demand is? How that relates to prices/wages? As you add more workers without creating jobs, wages go down and prices go up.

      • um, do – do you know what the minimum wage is? it’s not actually determined by employer demand.

        • Anthony Walsh

          Min wage goes too high they just start hiring illegals who will work for lower than min wage. It has already happened many times over. Unions and min wage hikes encourage automations and hiring illegals.

          • no human is illegal

          • Anthony Walsh

            But some humans enter countries without going through the proper procedure, then work jobs for cash, don’t pay income tax, which not only reduces the number of jobs for citizens but lowers the price of labor. Simple supply and demand. Then people complain labor is too cheap and to increase minimum wage which makes employers hire more illegal entrants of just automate the jobs away.

          • none of this is solved by restricting immigration or by lowering the minimum wage or by doing both, of course. and it’s got nothing to do with folks entering without “proper procedure” – employers will always, always exploit their workers whenever they can. the true solution is to remove the dependency between employment and survival: implementing universal basic income, free food and housing, healthcare, and similar initiatives.

          • Blarg Blarg

            Your entire world view is wrong.

            Your way is death to the U.S.A.

          • good. let’s kill the usa.

          • Blarg Blarg

            You are dangerously ignorant.

          • Anon

            Being a human is not illegal but entering a country illegally it is indeed… illegal.
            Did you see the Mississippi ICE raids 2 weeks ago? 680 arrests. Some released the same day. Bunch of illegal immigrants and workers. Bunch of identity theft that hurts real citizens like… you’re out there looking for a job and you get denied cuz it says you’re already working somewhere else, but you’re not, an illegal immigrant is and they stole your identity. That’s not made up, that literally happen. That’s fucked up.

          • yeah that’s fucked up all right. abolish ice.

          • Anon

            How about instead of let people enter the country illegally, work illegally and get work in illegal ways like identity theft why not just make them enter legally, work legally, not steal identities. How about making the people follow the law? Banning ICE is an open invitation for Criminals, drug lords, cartels, arms smugglers, etc. And that’s just one of the many consequences of banning ICE.

          • how about instead of let people enter the country illegally, we just make what they’re doing legal instead? and abolish ice?

          • Anon

            Because US doesn’t have unlimited resources, jobs, space, etc. And because you need a system in place to prevent transnational crimes and people with bad intentions to enter the country.

          • hmm. fair enough. then let’s kick out everyone working for ice, since they have bad intentions.

          • Anon

            You should watch the hearing Former Ice director Hooman. It tells a story of an immigrant dad whose 5 year old child died in his arms and all he could do was just watch. He chastises congress for not hearing, for not doing anything. He says he still has nightmares about that. It details some of the more horrible and morbid stuff that goes in the border.
            You know the detention centers are suppose to provide soap, beds, food, etc. But every time Trump tries to fund it, congress deny it. Hell, even some democrats are calling out for business that sell those foods, supplies, beds, etc to stop selling them to the detention centers. There was even a terrorist attack at an ICE facility and the people calling for the boycott, refused to condemn the attack.

            Here are some stats on ICE arrests in the last 2 years.
            In the last two years, ICE officers made 266,000 arrests of aliens with criminal records including those charged or convicted of 100,000 assaults, 30,000 sex crimes and 4,000 violent killings.

          • abolish ice and stop having “detention centers”. open the borders. stop having them be closed.

          • Anon

            Amo Mexico y soy muy fan de la lengua y la cultura Latino-Americana. But as much as fan as I am that doesn’t mean I approve this free entry for everyone. Rapists, murderers, criminals, cartels will take advantage of banning ICE and detention centers. They will take advantage of your “good nature” and fuck you up good.
            Have you been to Mexico? Great foods, as a tourist very welcoming people, great beaches, beautiful women. But… crime, cartels, drug lords, shootings. It was declared the 2nd most dangerous country in the world a few years ago. Have you seen a beheading? US Crime and shootings are some vanilla shit compared to what’s going on in Mexico. You want those people to enter US without proper screening and checking. That’s insane. You complain about world suffering but your ideas implemented would cause a lot of rape and death.

    • Stiffy Weiner

      Yes, but capitalists don’t tive a shit about immigrants unless they can exploit them

      • hm. you’re not wrong

        • Blarg Blarg

          Nothing you two in your worthless circle jerk have said is correct. Not one bit, unless you mean (((capitalists))).

          Open borders are a death sentence for the country, no other metric need be measured.

          • excellent. open all borders. kill all countries. let’s go.

          • Anon

            Why don’t you open your house and see what happens. Hopefully you have nice neighbors. And why you want death to the USA and all countries. How and why. Wtf.

          • uh, the usa is terrible? duh.

          • Anon

            You disagree with the current government so the over 300M people living there must suffer because you say so.

          • no? destroy countries so that they STOP making billions of people suffer, obviously.

          • Anon

            Who are these billions suffering because US?

          • approximately 99% of everyone on earth.

          • Anon

            How is the US making India, Japan, Mexico, Australia, UK, and apparently all the world suffer? By the pure fact of being a superpower or by its nuclear power? Are you talking about doomsday clock? What are you referring to specifically? Just saying that without a reason behind it sounds insane.

          • i mean, countries in general are making all the world suffer. it’s arguable how much of that is caused specifically by the usa. but the military-industrial complex in the states is definitely causing a disproportionate amount of suffering elsewhere in the world for instance.

          • Anon

            Why US keep troops on Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. Why not just send em back? It’s not a conventional war. They send troops over there so they don’t come to the US. To keep pressure on terrorist organizations and prevent them from having the operational space and time to commit another 9/11.
            Watch the ISIS documentaries, interviews, recruitment videos, etc. These people wake up every single day trying to plan another 9/11. ISIS activity has already increase in Syria just for the draw down the troops did on Syria.

  • Yeah no kidding

    This is the problem which Sweden has

    they want both good treatment of the lower class and mass immigration

    it does not work like that…

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