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Is punching terrorists self defense? hmm...


Antifa is proof that Communism is evil

The original communist movement attracted rough-edged, working-class men, along with soft middle-class intellectuals. The former would do the bloody work of the revolution at the orders of the latter.

I don’t see Antifa attracting those sort of men, namely, the ones who grew up doing regular guy things like hunting, working on cars and getting into fights with the other boys after school.

Opposition to Fascism isn’t inherently Communistic, just as opposition to Communism isn’t inherently Fascistic.

Communists have always been violent though, that’s the thing.
Red Terror then, Antifa now. The difference is that only the weak and pathetic support communism nowadays.

All radical ideologies that demand the dismantling of the currently existing institutions will gravitate towards violence. Your tendency to downplay fascist violence and emphasize communist violence makes where you stand very obvious, though. That fact that communism killed more is more a matter of circumstance as the Nazis would put the USSR to shame had the axis powers claimed victory in WW2.

Communism killed more because the system demands it.
If Hitler got what he wanted, x-people would’ve been killed, and that probably would’ve been the end of it, because he targeted non-Germans, and if he got his goal of a pure German empire, there’d be nothing left within that empire.
Communism practically feeds on death. Are you too rich? Dead. Are you trying to become rich? Dead.
We’re instituting economic policies that lack an incentive structure for anyone to work hard or improve their means of production. Do you not like this system and want to leave? Dead. Are you not trying hard enough to support this crappy system we’ve implemented? Dead, or the gulag.

As you said, ideologies that demand the dismantling of current institutions usually require violence, but whereas the fulfillment of Lebensraum MIGHT have had temporary (albeit terrible) violence, history has proven communism requires violence to even stay alive.

Except that the Nazis did have power for 12 years. During that time they killed a tiny fraction of the people the communists did. The Holodomor killed more people than the Holocaust is even claimed to have done.

And more to the point, the Nazis didn’t slaughter their own people. They didn’t even slaughter the French. Or the Dutch. Or the Belgians. Or the Danes. Or the Czechs. Or…

I personally can’t wait until Antifa is officially labeled as a domestic terrorist organization. Then it’s open season on every limp-wristed Gender Studies major with a bad attitude.

“organization” lel. You really can’t help yourself, can you?

You consistently deny reality. Why should we care about your opinions?

Antifa is as much of an “organization” as 4chan is. Your unwillingness to understand the leftist position at all will perpetually bite you in the ass. Indeed, the left’s unwillingness to debate fascists or understand the rightist position was our most exploitable weakness, good to see the tables turning.

“the left’s unwillingness to debate fascists or understand the rightist position”

It’s not really a debate if you start it with the premise that your opponent is an “evil fascist”. Not one conducted in good faith, at least.

If there’s a problem with the left today, it is exactly that attitude. And it is inherently undemocratic to outright reject and (try to) silence any political position divergent from your own. The unwillingness of the modern left to compromise with the right, culminating in calling conservatives nazis, is what makes the left unattractive for more and more people, leaving it with mostly extremists in its ranks.

I only take the default stance that my opponents in debate are fascists considering that this is motherfucking Stonetoss’ comment section. Anywhere else on the internet I wouldn’t default to that position but quite frankly I can’t trust anyone here to not be heiling hortler behind closed doors. Especially considering the alt-right’s tendency to use other ideologies as human shields, it’s natural to be a little bit overzealous with the word fascism.

And just because there’s a highly probability that any given person I interact with here is a crypto-fascist doesn’t mean I rely on that as being the crux of my argument; to the contrary, If you dropped your milquetoast persona and started throwing out red pills I’d give it MORE consideration because nothing would bring me into a frenzy more than the idea of tearing them down one by one.

Bruh, then what the fuck are you doing dwelling in this cesspool, cuckservative? If I take it at face value that you’re just a normie right winger then I have to ask: Why do you fall oddly silent when it comes to critiquing these comics but you’ll get really combative in the face of pretty damn tame liberal rhetoric?

It seems that you don’t “identify” as a fascist or nazi or alt-rightists, but that doesn’t really matter, now does it?

When you have people moving in crowds together, adopting the same mentality, covering for each other during times of violence, dressing the same way, and acting the same way… we call that being “organized.

jfc, am I going to need to save all my posts elsewhere because apparently dissidents to the all-mighty RockYeet are getting marked as spam? @disqus_9mBvtkZz25:disqus, you still might be able to find the response in your inbox, I’m not bothering typing out why you’re incorrect again.

Cite someone killed by an Antifa “member”, I’ll wait. A murderer with some leftist agenda doesn’t count, since the comic specifically implies that Antifa is a terriorist “group”. I don’t doubt there’s some left wing terrorism, but you’d need to establish someone who killed on domestic soil on the basis of their victim “being a fascist”.

Manolis Kapelonis and Giorgos Fountoulis.

That wasn’t perpetrated by Antifa

As far as the evidence leads, yes it was.

But whenever some asshole shoots up a mosque or a synagogue, it’s okay to lump it in with the alt-right?
Dylan Roof shoots up a church, and people lay it at the feet of Jared Taylor and Richard Spencer. Double standards every day of the week from you retards.

Idk about the situation with Dylan Roof, but Brenton Tarrant’s manifesto references several rightist internet personalities and was posted to 8chan’s /pol/.

And what evidence do you have that would suggest Antifa involvement/condonement other than that you desperately WANT it to be lumped with Antifa.

I think you just stepped into your own mouse trap, dude.
You say that the alt-right bears the responsibility for Brenton Tarrant’s shooting, because he mentions some of their personalities and posted on a board that the alt-right has occasionally used, but Antifa isn’t responsible for the Golden Dawn slayings, due to a lack of connection between the slayer’s motivations and Antifa’s agenda?

Using that logic, you can dismiss any acts of violence. Suddenly the alt-right and antifa are simultaneously absolved of any violence their followers might enact, solely because said followers don’t explicitly identify as members of their movements. Unless you’re talking about the right (as you hypocritically are), stating that Tarrant is one of them because of a few vague talking points.

Not buying it.

I don’t dispute that the golden dawn slayer was a leftist, which is entirely consistent with my assertion of the obvious fact that Brenton Tarrant is a fascist. The golden dawn slayer was not involved in Antifa, which makes it ridiculous to call Antifa a terrorist group by proxy. You’ll notice that I don’t refer to the alt-right as a terror group (because it’s a vague political allignment) simply due to Brenton Tarrant being objectively a right wing terrorist. (Inb4 muh mossad op) Once again, this is consistent with my appraisal of the Golden Dawn slayer.

In contrast, your logic goes as follows:
The murder of the victims by the Golden Dawn Slayer suggests a leftist agenda, therefore, Antifa is a terror group
Brenton Tarrant consistently references rightist rhetoric and figureheads in his manifesto, and the ethno-religious association of his victims suggests rightist agenda, but he was just memeing around you guys haha he remove kebab funny joke.

Nah man. I just threw out those names to expose your hypocrisy. And you did so with flying colors.
As of right now, as far as I can surmise, neither the alt-right nor Antifa have any kills to their name (though Willem Van Spronsen certainly tried).

But you try to shirk off the violence of left wing organizations (yes, if the people are moving and acting in a crowd, they’re organized) while pinning the violence of Tarrant onto right wingers (who acted entirely on their own).

“Politicized violence is only a thing when right wingers do it.”

How the fuck can a man who consistently refers to “white genocide” in his manifesto and specifically targets a mosque NOT be a right winger? Eco-fascism is a sect of the alt-right. Hell, I may be giving you people too much credit by even distinguishing sects of the far right in spite of minor differences. Willem Van Spronsen was a left winger (his manifesto comparing ICE detention centers to concentration camps makes that obvious), but he did not kill in the name of Anti-fascist action.

And to some extent, antifa is organized locally, but an “organization” implies centralized meetings, communication, or at the bare minimum some manner of leader. Antifa is also not monolithic in thought; the political variability amongst those who support anti-fascist action is far greater than that of the alt right, anti-communist classical liberals like myself are proof of that. (Fucking Sargon of Akkad ruined the classical liberal name to some extent, but the term accurately describes where I stand.)

The left is indeed capable of politicized violence and even politicized murders, they just have a far lower capacity for committing it.

Simple: he can believe in these things, while disagreeing with the remaining ideology of the right wing.

How did he feel about LGBT issues? Fiscal issues? You need more than two talking points to make someone a right winger- at best, you’ve proven he’s a centrist.

I can’t believe you think you’ll weasel your way out of this one. If I really wanted to take the same pathetic angle that you have, I can EASILY make the same claim about Willem Van Sprosen being a centrist because the only obvious left wing position he held was being pro-lenient immigration

If you’re going to use such egregious mental gymnastics to make every right wing murderer and terrorist into not being one, then I could easily do the same for the smaller but not neglegible group of left wing murderers and terrorists. I don’t use this tactic because I’m not a pussybitch, but I do refute Stonetoss’ claim that antifa is a literal terrorist group (or even much of a “group” at all). If we’re in agreement that the point of this comic is invalid then we might be at some resolution.

I understand that, I’m semi frequent on /leftypol/, but the fact that he posted it to specifically the 8chan /pol/ board is suspect. Nevertheless, the fact that he used 8chan isn’t the important bit, you’re just misconstruing my argument in a transparently bad faith pot shot. Would you seriously assert that the Christchurch shooter WASN’T motivated by right wing rhetoric?

Eco-fascism is still fascism, Nazbol is in a similar weird situation but I wouldn’t call them “apolitical” just because they use equal amounts leftist and rightist rhetoric; they’re simutaneously Communist Nazis. “top down controlled government” is an invevitabillity for any state that becomes far-right and even stonetoss himself has grown to hate Trump.

The 2d political model distinguishes left and right on an axis and authoritarian and libertarian. Top down control is equally popular in the authoritarian left and right. Literal Stalin loving Tankies are absolutely authoritarians through and through, but the same can be said for the authoritarian right, which grows in popularity day after day. In fact, i’d wager that you’d place authoritarian right to some degree. (I won’t jump to any conclusions and call you a extremist when I have such a limited profile of you, though.)

Brenton Tarrant’s manifesto explicitly says he thought of himself as an anarchist, hated both sides and wanted civil war to end it all.

He was called alt-right all over the media, which is obviously a false claim proven by the manifesto he wrote.

Being to incompetent or cowardly to follow through on an act doesn’t mean your above committing it. Due to it not being a formal organization I can’t point to specific example but I can name murderers who are closely knit with Antifa. One member of Antifa put up a hit on members of ICE. Just because the absolute failure of a human being failed, that doesn’t make him any less of a murderous douche.

Ah, so you’re asserting that Antifa is a stochastic terrorist group then? Well, right back at you because that’s exactly how rightist shootings work most of the time. In chan culture, you’ll find a lot of wink wink nudge nudges encouraging rightist violence (i.e “remove kebab”) and then after these mass shootings chan culture has a tendency to matryrize the shooters. It’s not a coincidence that after Christchurch there was a string of copycats, most of whom failed to kill more than one or two people but that just goes to show how most channers are absolute failures of human beings.

Still, I’d hesitate to call /pol/ a terror group but if Antifa is a terror “group” despite not glamorizing leftist shooters, lacking any formal platform to communicate, and only committing violence reactively and non-lethally, then /pol/ could fit the bill as a terror group.

a wink wink is not he same as openly proclaiming you want to physically harm and kill people ad inspire fear in them but thats just semitics i guess

Of course they’re not the same, the entire point of stochastic terrorism is to maintain plausible deniability through encrypted language + anonymity, a tactic Stonetoss himself is all too familiar with. You can’t indict anyone for inspiring terrorists because it’s impossible to prove in a court of law.

Nah, he’s just a part of the stochastic terrorism scheme the alt-right has going on but the only people who are legally terrorists in this scheme are the people influenced to kill by his and other’s rhetoric, which he is technically protected to do by the first amendment as long as he doesn’t actively threaten anyone.

It’s not his comics alone that immediately inspire people by the thousands to murder, moreso that immersing hundreds of thousands of 20-something disgruntled white males into far-right “culture” and affirming that our race is somehow being genocided by the existence of black and brown people is a recipe for disaster.

Because you’d never own up to right wing murderers.

Btw, looked up the “Shadilay Strangler” and the story I got was of a 15 year old who self described himself as a “Semi-political Centrist, kekistani for life, and lover of logic and reason [sic]” who strangled his mom to death over getting a D- in Algebra. Not really helping your case, now are you?

Take a read:

How the hell is the Shadilay Strangler a “leftie”? The kekistani meme was created by /pol/, propagated by /pol/ and youtube “””skeptics””” like Sargon of Akkad, and was literally never claimed by anyone on the left. To the contrary, it’s been called out for it’s obvious similarities to the Nazi Flag by the left, which is laughed of by the right as if it’s a coincidence.

You LITERALLY just gave me another example of a violent conservative, and although I wouldn’t claim that the Shadilay Strangler was “inspired” to murder because of their exposure to fairly tame rightist propaganda, (Sargon of Akkad being like a step above Ben Shapiro) clearly he wasn’t a leftist.

Of course, I’m willing to own up to ACTUAL left wing murderers and I wouldn’t attempt some ridiculous mental gymnastics to try to make them into rightists, unlike what you’re very clearly willing to do.

Your unironic use of kid goes to show that this argument has devolved beyond the point of return, I’m done with you. Don’t bothering responding to my posts if you’re just going to respond with retarded quips at the end anyways.

You job is easy, Don. You just make up random stuff and spew it out there, and then challenge us to disprove your nonsense.

Exactly what have I been “making up”? You just sound butthurt in the face of me bringing up topics that you haven’t heard of before, especially ones which challenge your deep-rooted loyalty to republicanism. In the face of topics that I haven’t seen before and could challenge my perspective, (I knew nothing of Willem van Spronsen or Golden Dawn) I’ve at least bothered to fucking GOOGLE it.

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

-Unlawfully use violence and intimidation
-Always against civilians, especially those who can’t fight back
-Try to violently shut down any opposin viewpoints

Communist Party Directive, 1943:
“When certain obstructionists become too irritating, label them, after suitable buildups, as fascist or Nazi or anti-Semitic, and use the prestige of antifascist and tolerance organizations to discredit them.”

They’re too ineffective to be real terrorists, all they can do is whack people on the back of the head with bike locks. The second anyone fights back they crumble. They’re just entitled babies larping as revolutionaries.

I wish that were the case. The Las Vegas shooter was an Antifa terr orist. The Sugarland, Texas church shooter was an Antifa terrorist. The guy who tried to assassinate Steve Scalise was an Antifa terrorist. The guy who got killed trying to bomb an ICE facility in Colorado, van Spronsen, was an Antifa terrorist.

Black Lives Matter is tied closely to Antifa, funded by the same Soros and Bloomberg money, and how many cops has BLM killed? Five in Dallas, Texas in one incident alone. Antifa doesn’t even play the political game of pretending to denounce these acts of terror, either.

We underestimate these people at our peril. We can look at the “Antifa training videos” people put on Youtube and point and laugh–but these people are buying guns and training, and want to kill us. They say so. They can’t shut up about it, in fact. And they aren’t all lisping 90-pound soyboys and obese dangerhair “riot grrrls” with nose rings, either. Some of them are ex-military and have actual skills and combat experience.

One of the lessons from 20th Century history is that when a well-funded, highly-organized fringe political movement arises and tells you to your face that they plan to kill you and your family, you should believe it.

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